Skip to Main Content

insightsarticles

State of the industry: BerryDunn's 4Q 2024 business valuation quarterly report

Our perspective on 4Q 2024 

By:

Lexi Dysinger, CVA is a Senior Valuation Analyst in BerryDunn’s Valuation Services Practice Group. She provides analysis for valuations for gifting, estate planning, ESOPs, transaction support, and other purposes. She holds a Bachelor of Business Administration in Finance from Stetson University.

Lexi Dysinger
03.25.25 /

The end of 4Q 2024 marks the start of a new year. In the Valuation Group, the end of the calendar year brings us to one of our busiest times of year: “ESOP season.” During the first few months of the year, we perform annual valuations for 30+ ESOP clients.

Meanwhile, other members of the valuation team have been focusing on assisting business owners with exit planning through our value acceleration service. The value acceleration exit planning framework is designed to help business owners identify and address value constraints and transferability limitations, but like turning a ship, it takes time. We recommend that business owners understand their strengths, limitations, and value at least five years before planning to exit. This proactive approach allows for a smoother transition and maximizes the business’ value.

Often, business owners like to wait until year-end results come out to make decisions. That way, they can compare performance year-over-year to aid in decision-making. Now that 2024 has concluded, we can assist business owners with decision-making by determining the value of the business based on year-end results. The end of the year is a busy time, with fiscal years wrapping up and holidays in full swing. As we move into 2025, it's an opportune moment to make strategic decisions for the future.

Speaking of busy, M&A activity often peaks in the fourth quarter. In 2024, this trend was again observable. After a strong year in 2024, our transaction advisory team is looking to help more clients sell or buy companies in 2025.

Another exciting opportunity for BerryDunn’s valuations team is the merger of BerryDunn and Burzenski & Company on December 1, 2024. Burzenski is well known for its work with veterinary practices and the construction industry. The merger will enable BerryDunn to expand into the veterinary practice market and add to its existing construction practice.

We track trends in several databases of private company transactions, among them GF Data, Capital IQ, DealStats, and BIZCOMPS. As presented below, we saw a slight downturn in multiples in the third quarter of 2024. We also saw the number of transactions increase in the fourth quarter compared to the third quarter of 2024 and in line with the first and second quarter.

Don’t get too fixated on the multiples in this chart as an indicator of value for your company. Look at the trends. Multiples vary dramatically from industry to industry and business to business. If you are interested in exploring value drivers for your company, read this recent article.  

The value of privately held companies often isn’t as volatile as share prices for public companies. However, activity in the stock market provides general guidance that is often much more timely than data available for private companies.

There are a few indexes we keep an eye on. The S&P 500 is generally considered the go-to benchmark for stock market performance, although it is dominated by a handful of large tech stocks. The Russell Midcap Index cuts out the largest 200 companies in the Russell 1000 Index, keeping 800 US companies with market capitalizations between $2 billion and $10 billion. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is comprised of 30 “blue chip” US stocks that may be similar to many private companies.

Stock prices have followed a generally upward trend throughout 2024 but have started to trend downward toward the end of Q4.

Many drivers of business value can be influenced or controlled by the decisions of the business’s management team, including product diversification, brand recognition, and employee retention. Other drivers are outside of management’s control, such as inflation and unemployment rates. As summarized below, key drivers of the US economy generally remained near similar levels in 4Q as in 3Q.1

1 Source: Federal Reserve Economic Data, available at https://fred.stlouisfed.org/.

2 Indicates the likely effect on business value for most businesses. Depending on the business model, certain businesses may demonstrate an inverse relationship to economic variables compared to the market as a whole.

As many of our clients are located in New England, we’ve included a summary below of some of the key economic drivers that affect businesses in the Northeast3. If your business is headquartered outside of New England, reach out to us for an economic analysis specific to your market area. 

Economic activity  

Economic activity increased slightly overall. Prices and employment levels were roughly unchanged, and wages rose at a modest pace. Air travel was a relative bright spot, as domestic air passenger traffic through Boston finally surpassed 2019 levels, and passenger traffic through the Worcester airport increased substantially in the past year. Tourism activity overall increased only modestly, however, and restaurants in some areas reported softer-than-expected sales. Retail revenues rose slightly, and consumers remained highly price-conscious. Manufacturing sales were mixed, while software and IT services firms experienced stable and healthy demand. Residential real estate sales increased modestly, helped by improved inventories in some areas, while commercial real estate activity was flat. The outlook was modestly optimistic on balance, although some contacts had concerns for 2025 related to how national economic policies might change and where long-term interest rates would land.

Labor markets  

Employment was roughly steady, and wages increased modestly on average. Contacts in the retail, tourism, and software and IT services sectors all reported stable headcounts. Among manufacturing contacts, headcounts increased slightly at selected firms, decreased modestly at one in response to slower sales, and were reportedly unchanged otherwise. Labor supply to retail and tourism jobs improved modestly, with contacts noting greater ease of hiring and reduced attrition. Wages increased modestly on average, and contacts reported no elevated wage pressures. However, one manufacturing contact experienced a significant increase in health insurance costs that they partly passed on to employees, while offering a slight wage increase as an incomplete offset. No contacts mentioned plans for major changes in hiring or wages in 2025. Cape Cod contacts, whose businesses rely heavily on seasonal worker visas, expressed concerns that potential changes to visa programs could restrict their labor supply in 2025 or beyond.

Prices 

Prices were about flat on balance. An online retailer reported only modest pricing pressures and remained keenly aware of consumers’ heightened price sensitivity. The same contact was cautiously optimistic that any tariffs would not have a major impact on their prices, owing to changes made to their supply chain in recent years. Hotel room rates in the Greater Boston area decreased modestly on a year-over-year basis, but contacts pointed out that the change was in relation to the record-high room prices of November 2023. Manufacturers held output prices steady, even though most experienced slight to modest increases in input prices. Software and IT services firms posted modest price increases on average. Contacts did not foresee major changes in pricing pressures for their businesses moving forward.

Retail and tourism 

First District4 retail contacts reported slight increases in revenues in recent months, while tourism activity experienced modest growth on average. An online retailer described fourth-quarter revenues as stable overall but said that promotions had been critical to those results and that demand for lower-end goods remained weak. On Cape Cod in the fourth quarter, hotel occupancy rates and retail sales met expectations and were roughly on par with the fourth quarter of 2023, but restaurants experienced weaker-than-expected sales. Airline passenger traffic through Boston increased moderately in the fourth quarter from one year earlier, with domestic travel finally surpassing 2019 levels. Worcester air passenger counts grew 18 percent from the previous year. Like the change in hotel room prices, hotel occupancy rates in greater Boston were down slightly in November from one year earlier, when occupancy rates had been at all-time highs. Contacts expected robust tourism and convention activity for Boston for 2025. The outlook for retail and restaurant activity was more cautious, as contacts in those businesses expected roughly flat activity going forward.

Manufacturing and related services 

Manufacturing sales were flat on average since the last report. Most firms reported no change in revenues in the fourth quarter from the third, but sales were unexpectedly soft for one manufacturer and unexpectedly strong for another. The strong sales pertained to a frozen fish producer who speculated that retailers were accumulating inventories in anticipation of tariffs. A semiconductor maker with flat sales said that demand for their products was softening and that they would adjust employment downward moving forward. Capital expenditures largely stayed within forecast ranges. The outlook for 2025 was modestly positive on balance, as most firms expected sales to increase at least slightly in the new year, but one semiconductor manufacturer expected moderate declines in sales relative to 2024.

IT and software services 

First District IT and software services contacts described demand as stable at healthy levels, and one firm’s total revenues for 2024 exceeded expectations. Capital spending was constant, and physical investments were described as minimal given firms’ reliance on cloud computing services. Contacts expected revenues to increase strongly in the first quarter of 2025, based on a combination of organic growth in demand and, in one case, the recent acquisition of another company. Considering the longer-term outlook, most contacts expressed confidence that demand for their products would continue to rise, even in an environment of heightened political and macroeconomic uncertainty. Nonetheless, one firm said that increased competition from China affecting its clients could either boost its business, as client firms invested in new technologies to keep up, or hurt demand if clients were pushed out of the market altogether by such competition.

Commercial real estate 

Commercial real estate activity was mostly flat in the First District. Contacts reported uniformly that elevated long-term interest rates continued to limit transactions. One contact said that borrowers, hoping that long-term rates would decline, continued to favor extensions for maturing loans. However, several contacts downgraded the chances of significant rate declines in 2025. Office leasing activity remained slow, but prime Boston properties continued to experience relatively healthy activity. Contacts described industrial and retail leasing activity as stable. Rents and occupancy rates were unchanged across all asset classes. One contact said that a recent Massachusetts law intended to promote multifamily construction was yielding tangible results in some areas of the state. Around half of contacts were cautiously optimistic that the first quarter of 2025 would bring more robust commercial real estate activity, while others expected current activity levels to persist or, more pessimistically, that interest rates would stay higher for longer than previously expected and exert negative impacts on the market.

Residential real estate 

Home sales in the First District rose modestly on a year-over-year basis in November 2024, the most recent month for which data was available. Supporting the increase in sales, home inventories were up moderately from a year ago overall, with very large increases in Maine and Vermont, although inventories declined moderately in Massachusetts from a year earlier. However, the typical number of days homes spent on the market increased, as multiple contacts mentioned that some buyers were waiting until after the presidential election to make purchasing decisions. Considering changes since November 2023, prices of single-family homes increased at a brisk pace, while condo prices increased moderately on average in Massachusetts and Rhode Island but decreased modestly in the northern New England states. Multiple contacts expressed optimism that more sellers would put their homes on the market in early 2025 and that this would lead to increased sales activity.

3 Quoted from the Beige Book – January 2025 from the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.

4 The Federal Reserve System’s First District includes Connecticut (excluding Fairfield County), Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont.

Where to find us

Casey Karlsen and Seth Webber are leading a four-part workshop series for business owners about increasing business value and liquidity. We previously summarized this content in a couple of blog posts (Session 1, Session 2, Session 3). Take a look if you missed us! 

Interested in meeting the team? Please reach out to us. We would love to connect. 

Related Services

Related Professionals

Leaders

BerryDunn experts and consultants

Lexi Dysinger, CVA is a Senior Valuation Analyst in BerryDunn’s Valuation Services Practice Group. She provides analysis for valuations for gifting, estate planning, ESOPs, transaction support, and other purposes. She holds a Bachelor of Business Administration in Finance from Stetson University.

Professional
Lexi Dysinger

What are the top three areas of improvement right now for your business? In this third article of our series, we will focus on how to increase business value by aligning values, decreasing risk, and improving what we call the “four C’s”: human capital, structural capital, social capital, and consumer capital.

To back up for a minute, value acceleration is the process of helping clients increase the value of their business and build liquidity into their lives. Previously, we looked at the Discover stage, in which business owners take inventory of their personal, financial, and business goals and assemble information into a prioritized action plan. Here, we are going to focus on the Prepare stage of the value acceleration process.

Aligning values may sound like an abstract concept, but it has a real world impact on business performance and profitability. For example, if a business has multiple owners with different future plans, the company can be pulled in two competing directions. Another example of poor alignment would be if a shareholder’s business plans (such as expanding the asset base to drive revenue) compete with personal plans (such as pulling money out of the business to fund retirement). Friction creates problems. The first step in the Prepare stage is therefore to reduce friction by aligning values.

Reducing risk

Personal risk creates business risk, and business risk creates personal risk. For example, if a business owner suddenly needs cash to fund unexpected medical bills, planned business expansion may be delayed to provide liquidity to the owner. If a key employee unexpectedly quits, the business owner may have to carve time away from their personal life to juggle new responsibilities. 

Business owners should therefore seek to reduce risk in their personal lives, (e.g., life insurance, use of wills, time management planning) and in their business, (e.g., employee contracts, customer contracts, supplier and customer diversification).

Intangible value and the four C's

Now more than ever, the value of a business is driven by intangible value rather than tangible asset value. One study found that intangible asset value made up 87% of S&P 500 market value in 2015 (up from 17% in 1975). Therefore, we look at how to increase business value by increasing intangible asset value and, specifically, the four C’s of intangible asset value: human capital, structural capital, social capital, and consumer capital. 

Here are two ways you can increase intangible asset value. First of all, do a cost-benefit analysis before implementing any strategies to boost intangible asset value. Second, to avoid employee burnout, break planned improvements into 90-day increments with specific targets.

At BerryDunn, we often diagram company performance on the underlying drivers of the 4 C’s (below). We use this tool to identify and assess the areas for greatest potential improvements:

By aligning values, decreasing risk, and improving the four C’s, business owners can achieve a spike in cash flow and business value, and obtain liquidity to fund their plans outside of their business.

If you are interested in learning more about value acceleration, please contact the business valuation services team. We would be happy to meet with you, answer any questions you may have, and provide you with information on upcoming value acceleration presentations.

Article
The four C's: Value acceleration series part three (of five)

This is our second of five articles addressing the many aspects of business valuation. In the first article, we presented an overview of the three stages of the value acceleration process (Discover, Prepare, and Decide). In this article we are going to look more closely at the Discover stage of the process.

In the Discover stage, business owners take inventory of their personal, financial, and business goals, noting ways to increase alignment and reduce risk. The objective of the Discover stage is to gather data and assemble information into a prioritized action plan, using the following general framework.

Every client we have talked to so far has plans and priorities outside of their business. Accordingly, the first topic in the Discover stage is to explore your personal plans and how they may affect business goals and operations. What do you want to do next in your personal life? How will you get it done?

Another area to explore is your personal financial plan, and how this interacts with your personal goals and business plans. What do you currently have? How much do you need to fund your other goals?

The third leg of the value acceleration “three-legged stool” is business goals. How much can the business contribute to your other goals? How much do you need from your business? What are the strengths and weaknesses of your business? How do these compare to other businesses? How can business value be enhanced? A business valuation can help you to answer these questions.

A business valuation can clarify the standing of your business regarding the qualities buyers find attractive. Relevant business attractiveness factors include the following:

  • Market factors, such as barriers to entry, competitive advantages, market leadership, economic prosperity, and market growth
  • Forecast factors, such as potential profit and revenue growth, revenue stream predictability, and whether or not revenue comes from recurring sources
  • Business factors, such as years of operation, management strength, customer loyalty, branding, customer database, intellectual property/technology, staff contracts, location, business owner reliance, marketing systems, and business systems

Your company’s performance in these areas may lead to a gap between what your business is worth and what it could be worth. Armed with the information from this assessment, you can prepare a plan to address this “value gap” and look toward your plans for the future.

If you are interested in learning more about value acceleration, please contact the business valuation services team. We would be happy to meet with you, answer any questions you may have, and provide you with information on upcoming value acceleration presentations.

Next up in our value acceleration series is all about what we call the four C's of the value acceleration process. 

Article
The discover stage: Value acceleration series part two (of five)

This is the first article in our five-article series that reviews the art and science of business valuation. The series is based on an in-person program we offer from time to time.  

Did you know that just 12 months after selling, three out of four business owners surveyed “profoundly regretted” their decision? Situations like these highlight the importance of the value acceleration process, which focuses on increasing value and aligning business, personal, and financial goals. Through this process, business owners will be better prepared for business transitions, and therefore be significantly more satisfied with their decisions.

Here is a high-level overview of the value acceleration process. This process has three stages, diagrammed here:

The Discover stage is also called the “triggering event.” This is where business owners take inventory of their situation, focusing on risk reduction and alignment of their business, personal, and financial goals. The information gleaned in this stage is then compiled into a prioritized action plan utilized in future stages.

In the Prepare stage, business owners follow through on business improvement and personal/financial planning action items formed in the discover stage. Examples of action items include the following:

  • Addressing weaknesses identified in the Discover stage, in the business, or in personal financial planning
  • Protecting value through planning documents and making sure appropriate insurance is in place
  • Analyzing and prioritizing projects to improve the value of the business, as identified in Discover stage
  • Developing strategies to increase liquidity and retirement savings

The last stage in the process is the Decide stage. At this point, business owners choose between continuing to drive additional value into the business or to sell it.

Through the value acceleration process, we help business owners build value into their businesses and liquidity into their lives.

If you are interested in learning more about value acceleration, please contact the business valuation services team. We would be happy to meet with you, answer any questions you may have, and provide you with information on upcoming value acceleration presentations.

Read more! In our next installment of the value acceleration blog series, we cover the Discover stage.

Article
The process: Value acceleration series part one (of five)

Executive compensation, bonuses, and other cost structure items, such as rent, are often contentious issues in business valuations, as business valuations are often valued by reference to the income they produce. If the business being valued pays its employees an above-market rate, for example, its income will be depressed. Accordingly, if no adjustments are made, the value of the business will also be diminished.

When valuing controlling ownership interests, valuation analysts often restate above- or below-market items (compensation, bonuses, rent, etc.) to a fair market level to reflect what a hypothetical buyer would pay. In the valuation of companies with ESOPs, the issue gets more complicated. The following hypothetical example illustrates why.

Glamorous Grocery is a company that is 100% owned by an ESOP. A valuation analyst is retained to estimate the fair market value of each ESOP share. Glamorous Grocery generates very little income, in part because several executives are overcompensated. The valuation analyst normalizes executive compensation to a market level. This increases Glamorous Grocery’s income, and by extension the fair market value of Glamorous Grocery, ultimately resulting in a higher ESOP share value.

Glamorous Grocery’s trustee then uses this valuation to establish the market price of ESOP shares for the following year. When employees retire, Glamorous Grocery buys employees out at the established share price. The problem? As mentioned before, Glamorous Grocery generates very little income and as a result has difficulty obtaining the liquidity to buy out employees.

This simple example illustrates the concerns about normalizing executive compensation in ESOP valuations. If you reduce executive compensation for valuation purposes, the share price increases, putting a heavier burden on the company when you redeem shares. The company, which already has reduced income from paying above-market executive compensation, may struggle to redeem shares at the established price.

While control-level adjustments may be common, it is worth considering whether they are appropriate in an ESOP valuation. It is important that the benefit stream reflect the underlying economic reality of the company to ensure longevity of the company and the company’s ESOP.

Questions? Our valuation team will be happy to help. 

BerryDunn’s Business Valuation Group partners with clients to bring clarity to the complexities of business valuation, while adhering to strict development and reporting standards. We render an independent, objective opinion of your company’s value in a reporting format tailored to meet your needs. We thoroughly analyze the financial and operational performance of your company to understand the story behind the numbers. We assess current and forecasted market conditions as they impact present and future cash flows, which in turn drives value.

Article
Compensation, bonuses, and other factors that can make or break an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP)

Read this if your CFO has recently departed, or if you're looking for a replacement.

With the post-Covid labor shortage, “the Great Resignation,” an aging workforce, and ongoing staffing concerns, almost every industry is facing challenges in hiring talented staff. To address these challenges, many organizations are hiring temporary or interim help—even for C-suite positions such as Chief Financial Officers (CFOs).

You may be thinking, “The CFO is a key business partner in advising and collaborating with the CEO and developing a long-term strategy for the organization; why would I hire a contractor to fill this most-important role?” Hiring an interim CFO may be a good option to consider in certain circumstances. Here are three situations where temporary help might be the best solution for your organization.

Your organization has grown

If your company has grown since you created your finance department, or your controller isn’t ready or suited for a promotion, bringing on an interim CFO can be a natural next step in your company’s evolution, without having to make a long-term commitment. It can allow you to take the time and fully understand what you need from the role — and what kind of person is the best fit for your company’s future.

BerryDunn's Kathy Parker, leader of the Boston-based Outsourced Accounting group, has worked with many companies to help them through periods of transition. "As companies grow, many need team members at various skill levels, which requires more money to pay for multiple full-time roles," she shared. "Obtaining interim CFO services allows a company to access different skill levels while paying a fraction of the cost. As the company grows, they can always scale its resources; the beauty of this model is the flexibility."

If your company is looking for greater financial skill or advice to expand into a new market, or turn around an underperforming division, you may want to bring on an outsourced CFO with a specific set of objectives and timeline in mind. You can bring someone on board to develop growth strategies, make course corrections, bring in new financing, and update operational processes, without necessarily needing to keep those skills in the organization once they finish their assignment. Your company benefits from this very specific skill set without the expense of having a talented but expensive resource on your permanent payroll.

Your CFO has resigned

The best-laid succession plans often go astray. If that’s the case when your CFO departs, your organization may need to outsource the CFO function to fill the gap. When your company loses the leader of company-wide financial functions, you may need to find someone who can come in with those skills and get right to work. While they may need guidance and support on specifics to your company, they should be able to adapt quickly and keep financial operations running smoothly. Articulating short-term goals and setting deadlines for naming a new CFO can help lay the foundation for a successful engagement.

You don’t have the budget for a full-time CFO

If your company is the right size to have a part-time CFO, outsourcing CFO functions can be less expensive than bringing on a full-time in-house CFO. Depending on your operational and financial rhythms, you may need the CFO role full-time in parts of the year, and not in others. Initially, an interim CFO can bring a new perspective from a professional who is coming in with fresh eyes and experience outside of your company.

After the immediate need or initial crisis passes, you can review your options. Once the temporary CFO’s agreement expires, you can bring someone new in depending on your needs, or keep the contract CFO in place by extending their assignment.

Considerations for hiring an interim CFO

Making the decision between hiring someone full-time or bringing in temporary contract help can be difficult. Although it oversimplifies the decision a bit, a good rule of thumb is: the more strategic the role will be, the more important it is that you have a long-term person in the job. CFOs can have a wide range of duties, including, but not limited to:

  • Financial risk management, including planning and record-keeping
  • Management of compliance and regulatory requirements
  • Creating and monitoring reliable control systems
  • Debt and equity financing
  • Financial reporting to the Board of Directors

If the focus is primarily overseeing the financial functions of the organization and/or developing a skilled finance department, you can rely — at least initially — on a CFO for hire.

Regardless of what you choose to do, your decision will have an impact on the financial health of your organization — from avoiding finance department dissatisfaction or turnover to capitalizing on new market opportunities. Getting outside advice or a more objective view may be an important part of making the right choice for your company.

BerryDunn can help whether you need extra assistance in your office during peak times or interim leadership support during periods of transition. We offer the expertise of a fully staffed accounting department for short-term assignments or long-term engagements―so you can focus on your business. Meet our interim assistance experts.

Article
Three reasons to consider hiring an interim CFO

So far in our value acceleration article series, we have talked about increasing the value of your business and building liquidity into your life starting with taking inventory of where you are at and aligning values, reducing risk, and increasing intangible value.

In this article, we are going to focus on planning and execution. How these action items are introduced and executed may be just as important as the action items themselves. We still need to protect value before we can help it grow. Let’s say you had a plan, a good plan, to sell your business and start a new one. Maybe a bed-and-breakfast on the coast? You’ve earmarked the 70% in cash proceeds to bolster your retirement accounts. The remaining 30% was designed to generate cash for the down payment on the bed-and-breakfast. And it is stuck in escrow or, worse yet, tied to an earn-out. Now, the waiting begins. When do you get to move on to the next phase? After all that hard work in the value acceleration process, you still didn’t get where you wanted to go. What went wrong?

Many business owners stumble at the end because they lack a master plan that incorporates their business action items and personal action items. Planning and execution in the value acceleration process was the focus of our conversation with a group of business owners and advisors on Thursday, April 11th.

Business valuation master plan steps to take

A master plan should include both business actions and personal actions. We uncovered a number of points that resonated with business owners in the room. Almost every business owner has some sort of action item related to employees, whether it’s hiring new employees, advancing employees into new roles, or helping employees succeed in their current roles. A review of financial practices may also benefit many businesses. For example, by revisiting variable vs. fixed costs, companies may improve their bidding process and enhance profitability. 

Master plan business improvement action items:

  • Customer diversification and contract implementation
  • Inventory management
  • Use of relevant metrics and dashboards
  • Financial history and projections
  • Systems and process refinement

A comprehensive master plan should also include personal action items. Personal goals and objectives play a huge role in the actions taken by a business. As with the hypothetical bed-and-breakfast example, personal goals may influence your exit options and the selected deal structure. 

Master plan personal action items:

  •  Family involvement in the business
  •  Needs vs. wants
  •  Development of an advisory team
  •  Life after planning

A master plan incorporates all of the previously identified action items into an implementation timeline. Each master plan is different and reflects the underlying realities of the specific business. However, a practical framework to use as guidance is presented below.

The value acceleration process requires critical thinking and hard work. Just as important as identifying action items is creating a process to execute them effectively. Through proper planning and execution, we help our clients not only become wealthier but to use their wealth to better their lives. 

If you are interested in learning more about value acceleration, please contact the business valuation services team. We would be happy to meet with you, answer any questions you may have, and provide you with information on upcoming value acceleration presentations. 

Article
Planning and execution: Value acceleration series part four (of five)